Author Topic: Is Manjaro truly a rolling release?  (Read 2624 times)

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Offline jonathon

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Re: Is Manjaro truly a rolling release?
« Reply #15 on: 10. April 2016, 02:18:00 »
Ubuntu and Fedora

I know newer Unity versions reset its configuration but that's the package, not the distribution (it's still very poor design). What else have they been up to?
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Offline Crusader370

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Re: Is Manjaro truly a rolling release?
« Reply #16 on: 10. April 2016, 15:58:05 »
Guys, while I do understand why this choice has been made, and I agree with this choice, it doesn't mean that it cannot be improved, or that it doesn't have disadvantages.

I want to be able to know that my system that I've been updating is identical to the system that you would get if you downloaded it from the website today. But this is not the case.

Having desktop settings that I never changed as part of my user settings makes no sense to me (at least as a non-default behaviour). If I didn't change the setting, it should be updated. And I don't even think this would be so hard to implement: the user folder doesn't have anything copied to it when a user is created. When the user changes a setting, only the diff is stored in his/her user folder. Thank you for educating me about the /etc/skel/ folder, but there are some pretty important files in there like .bashrc that I wouldn't dare overwrite in my user folder.

But anyway, thank you for your replies.

Offline eugen-b

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Re: Is Manjaro truly a rolling release?
« Reply #17 on: 10. April 2016, 16:09:01 »
A distro which dictates your personal settings might have a market niche, but probaly not among GNU/Linux users.
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Offline c00ter

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Re: Is Manjaro truly a rolling release?
« Reply #18 on: 10. April 2016, 16:22:46 »
Any distro update/upgrade/install that touches my /home without permission, I KEEL!  KEEL, I say!  C:-) C:-)  I gotta TB of data and can only backup half of it to an external HDD. I'm really, really sensitive about what goes on with my system.

I would personally hunt down and kill (albeit a little slowly in my walker) the developer that intentionally or otherwise touched my stuff. ;) That's why I stick with Arch and derivatives like Manjaro, or Debian Testing, or something I have a bit more fine-grained control with than distros that want to take that control away from me. Have I ever had problems? Sure, once or twice over the years, but nothing I couldn't roll back or otherwise repair. But those were system problems; data was never touched.

If my data gets borked, I want it to be by my stupid mistake rather than a system that thinks it knows better. ;)

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Offline artoo

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Re: Is Manjaro truly a rolling release?
« Reply #19 on: 10. April 2016, 16:41:56 »
Guys, while I do understand why this choice has been made, and I agree with this choice, it doesn't mean that it cannot be improved, or that it doesn't have disadvantages.

I want to be able to know that my system that I've been updating is identical to the system that you would get if you downloaded it from the website today. But this is not the case.

Having desktop settings that I never changed as part of my user settings makes no sense to me (at least as a non-default behaviour). If I didn't change the setting, it should be updated. And I don't even think this would be so hard to implement: the user folder doesn't have anything copied to it when a user is created. When the user changes a setting, only the diff is stored in his/her user folder.

Young hobbit still needs to learn quite a lot.

You basically always have an identical system to install media in terms of package selection and versions will be updated.

As others pointed out already, your user settings, like themes, wallpapers, are in fact, well, user settings, and never touched by any package update.
It is a no go that packages modify the $HOME files.

Offline scachemaille

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Re: Is Manjaro truly a rolling release?
« Reply #20 on: 10. April 2016, 16:43:32 »
@crusader
We understand you point of view and it's why the devs
Created the different manjaro-xxx-settings package as it's pretty new packages. And most of users would be annoyed by the updates that mess there desktop.  They created these package who is keepent up to date with the ISO development.  Like this the user can if he want without to much work (there is some work of course)  have the latest desktop settings for their desktop like as in the ISO.  To automate this process would be a nightmare to maintain. And certainly not useful for enough user than the work it ask.

And again if there is correction in the theme you use.  Adding icons,  changing others, color change. These change should be applied during updates of the theme
« Last Edit: 10. April 2016, 16:50:53 by scachemaille »

Offline Crusader370

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Re: Is Manjaro truly a rolling release?
« Reply #21 on: 10. April 2016, 22:11:37 »
But I am assuming that, eventually the main release will have xfce updated to a new major release. What will happen then?

Offline jonathon

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Re: Is Manjaro truly a rolling release?
« Reply #22 on: 10. April 2016, 22:14:34 »
I'm not sure what else you want. You've been told what will happen and the reasons why it happens (or rather, doesn't, from your perspective).

It's a very valid, long standing, design decision not to mess with a user's files. This isn't going to change.
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Offline scachemaille

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Re: Is Manjaro truly a rolling release?
« Reply #23 on: 10. April 2016, 22:17:38 »
But I am assuming that, eventually the main release will have xfce updated to a new major release. What will happen then?
All is updated..  There's is only one repository..  There isn't one repository for each release like as Ubuntu.  Then all is following updates beside settings in /home
After for some "major" desktop update.  Like as plasma 5 from plasma 4 the update were not automatic because it was a huge change.  And they there were both disponible in the repost until kde stopped support of kde 4
« Last Edit: 10. April 2016, 22:20:12 by scachemaille »

Offline Crusader370

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Re: Is Manjaro truly a rolling release?
« Reply #24 on: 10. April 2016, 22:39:09 »
I'm not sure what else you want. You've been told what will happen and the reasons why it happens (or rather, doesn't, from your perspective).

It's a very valid, long standing, design decision not to mess with a user's files. This isn't going to change.
I am simply asking questions. What do I want? Well, ideally, a change in what is considered a "user's file". If it's a file that I never created or changed, then I would argue that it's not a user's file. I.e. if it has been created automatically when the user was created and copied to the "user" folder. This "valide, long standing" decision is not incompatible with what I want, but I do understand that nobody is interested in implementing something like this.

Offline eugen-b

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Re: Is Manjaro truly a rolling release?
« Reply #25 on: 10. April 2016, 22:58:05 »
I think I understand what you want. This could be even achieved with manjaro-<profile>-settings packages. You would need a script which overwrites the files in $HOME (leaving the old files as backups) with those in /etc/skel every time the manjaro-<profile>-settings package gets updated. The script would be called profile-updater, it could be even made an AUR package so those who are interested would install it.
« Last Edit: 10. April 2016, 23:08:43 by eugen-b »
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Offline c00ter

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Re: Is Manjaro truly a rolling release?
« Reply #26 on: 10. April 2016, 23:03:17 »
I am simply asking questions. What do I want? Well, ideally, a change in what is considered a "user's file". If it's a file that I never created or changed, then I would argue that it's not a user's file. I.e. if it has been created automatically when the user was created and copied to the "user" folder. This "valide, long standing" decision is not incompatible with what I want, but I do understand that nobody is interested in implementing something like this.

OK, I understand. I hope I'm not talking about something you are competent in so please bear with me. In userspace /home/yourname resides hidden directories such as .config and .local. They are text files containing settings for applications, themes, autostarted utilities, etc. Some of them are specific to your system in general, some are specific to Manjaro in general, some ares specific to the user in general, and some are uniquely created for you specifically.

Home is a blank slate populated by your existing data, which can be very large, and all of those configuration files--a lot of unique ones, especially after a long period of time. If those were overwritten or deleted by updates/upgrades, forever losing them to the user, what do you think would happen?

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Offline c00ter

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Re: Is Manjaro truly a rolling release?
« Reply #27 on: 10. April 2016, 23:08:03 »
I think I understand what you want. This could be even achieved with manjaro-<profile>-settings packages. You would need a script which overwrites the files in $HOME with those in /etc/skel every time the manjaro-<profile>-settings package gets updated. The script would be called profile-updater, it could be even made an AUR package so those who are interested would install it.

Sure. And then the very first person who does not understand that it will overwrite (change? backup?) their existing settings installs it and goes into shock? Will that happen?

Regards

EDIT: Why not just make the script install Ubuntu?  >:D >:D >:D
« Last Edit: 10. April 2016, 23:10:49 by c00ter »
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Offline eugen-b

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Re: Is Manjaro truly a rolling release?
« Reply #28 on: 10. April 2016, 23:10:07 »
Sure. And then the very first person who does not understand that it will overwrite (change? backup?) their existing settings installs it and goes into shock? Will that happen?

Regards
I've just got the idea that the script should create a backup of each file or at least of those which are different from the new files.
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Offline c00ter

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Re: Is Manjaro truly a rolling release?
« Reply #29 on: 10. April 2016, 23:11:18 »
EDIT: Why not just make the script install Ubuntu?  >:D >:D >:D
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