Author Topic: Idea for new edition: sway - full wayland version  (Read 2982 times)

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Offline Chrysostomus

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Idea for new edition: sway - full wayland version
« on: 31. December 2015, 05:02:00 »
I3 edition has proven massively popular. What would you guys think about having the same wm on wayland?

Minimalistic sway edition would include:
- sway started automatically from terminal on login.
- only wayland supporting apps on default install. So mostly gnome apps at this point. Gedit, fileroller and gnome-disks. Gnome-terminal if no better alternative is found. Spacefm for filemanager
- bemenu to replace dmenu, with dmenu-recency ported to support the wayland version
- cli apps featured in current i3 edition: pacli, bmenu, mhwd-tui, ranger, moc and so on.
- browser that runs on wayland (probably firefox or chromium. There is wayland version of latter in aur, and wayland support is slowly being developed for the former)


Challanges:
- get sway to run without xwayland.
- make sway play nice with bemenu (it wants to tile it)
- find lighter wayland capeable terminal than gnome-terminal
- choose right browser that supports wayland.
- figure out how to set wallpaper, pointer theme and keymap in easy to aproach manner.

Thoughts? Ideas?
« Last Edit: 31. December 2015, 05:59:59 by Chrysostomus »

Offline Chrysostomus

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Re: Idea for new edition: sway - full wayland version
« Reply #1 on: 31. December 2015, 07:38:11 »
Wlterm seems to be native wayland terminal. Terminology should work too. Also, mplayer2 seems to support wayland.

Offline crazyg4merz

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Re: Idea for new edition: sway - full wayland version
« Reply #2 on: 31. December 2015, 08:40:39 »
The problem is Nvidia driver hasn't release a wayland support yet. That's the only problem for now

Offline Chrysostomus

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Re: Idea for new edition: sway - full wayland version
« Reply #3 on: 31. December 2015, 11:23:41 »
Well, not the only one, but poasibly the biggest. Browser is another big issue.

Offline ringo

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Re: Idea for new edition: sway - full wayland version
« Reply #4 on: 31. December 2015, 11:58:18 »
I think a mark as development release should scare a part of the users away that dont know .... its not bad , but atract people where mayby not belong is not good..is just a opinion :)
soon and later comes, its upon the upstream or the linux trend :)
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Offline crazyg4merz

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Re: Idea for new edition: sway - full wayland version
« Reply #5 on: 31. December 2015, 12:43:20 »
Well, not the only one, but poasibly the biggest. Browser is another big issue.
i thought chromium and firefox run fine in wayland, am I wrong?
But we still have Gnome own browser that can runs in wayland at least, but for Nvidia user like me wayland is not available yet. I'm on GTX970 that even open source driver is not yet available. :(

Offline thundersqueak

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Re: Idea for new edition: sway - full wayland version
« Reply #6 on: 31. December 2015, 12:49:09 »
i thought chromium and firefox run fine in wayland, am I wrong?
But we still have Gnome own browser that can runs in wayland at least, but for Nvidia user like me wayland is not available yet. I'm on GTX970 that even open source driver is not yet available. :(
Chromium runs for sure under wayland as will google-chrome http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTU5NTU
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Offline withjaro

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Re: Idea for new edition: sway - full wayland version
« Reply #7 on: 01. January 2016, 03:28:30 »
What graphic libraries are you considering ... im just acquainting myself with Wayland ... and  was under the impression Cairo and GL were the only options ... your mentioning of Wlterm has opened up Pango too.
With regards to a browser ive just been messing with this  https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/uzbl-core-next-git ... unfortunately i couldnt get it to work ... but i think it could be compatiable with Wayland.
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Offline excalibur1234

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Re: Idea for new edition: sway - full wayland version
« Reply #8 on: 01. January 2016, 14:49:20 »
i think sway definitely a long term replacement for i3 and other tiling WMs like bspwm.
if you have time for it - also in the foreseeable future - then go ahead. i recommend to stop active development of your bspwm edition as soon as you think the sway edition is supperior.


as far as i can see, sway is neither based upon kwin nor on gtk3 or e20. if you want a light image file, you have to decide whether you want to use gtk3 based wayland compatible applications or qt5 (and maybe kde5) based applications.
at the moment, there are more gtk3 applications available, so it is a good choice.

also, it looks like you have to avoid proprietary gpu drivers, because they do not support wayland yet. but that is easy to do.

have you thought about a wayland compatible login manager (maybe gdm?) or do you want to use x11 for login and start sway + wayland afterwards?


the main drawback of wayland on a light linux distribution is IMHO: it only adds extra packages and extra performance requirements. this kind of defeats the purpose of a light linux distribution.
but having wayland on a full size linux distribution for modern hardware would definitely be a great technology demonstration!

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Offline ringo

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Re: Idea for new edition: sway - full wayland version
« Reply #9 on: 01. January 2016, 15:12:46 »
Atleast if you dont ''mark' the edition as Stable , call it Beta or something.... :)
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Offline Chrysostomus

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Re: Idea for new edition: sway - full wayland version
« Reply #10 on: 01. January 2016, 16:15:01 »
i think sway definitely a long term replacement for i3 and other tiling WMs like bspwm.
if you have time for it - also in the foreseeable future - then go ahead. i recommend to stop active development of your bspwm edition as soon as you think the sway edition is supperior.


as far as i can see, sway is neither based upon kwin nor on gtk3 or e20. if you want a light image file, you have to decide whether you want to use gtk3 based wayland compatible applications or qt5 (and maybe kde5) based applications.
at the moment, there are more gtk3 applications available, so it is a good choice.

also, it looks like you have to avoid proprietary gpu drivers, because they do not support wayland yet. but that is easy to do.

have you thought about a wayland compatible login manager (maybe gdm?) or do you want to use x11 for login and start sway + wayland afterwards?


the main drawback of wayland on a light linux distribution is IMHO: it only adds extra packages and extra performance requirements. this kind of defeats the purpose of a light linux distribution.
but having wayland on a full size linux distribution for modern hardware would definitely be a great technology demonstration!

I don't think I'm doing this anytime soon. Would be cool, but I lack the time and some necessary technologies are not ready yet in my opinion.

I would not use a login manager, I'd autostart from tty1 on login. But if I would, currently gdm would be the only option.

Gtk3 vs qt5 is the choice. For me it sems that gtk3 has progeressed further at this point, but qt probably catches up at some point.

I think wayland actually makes it possible to run a lighter system if you can avoid xwayland. For me, sway spawns 2 processess totalling 18mb. Just xorg alone is often 40mb for me, so wayland might have something to offer for light systems too =)

Offline Jeannie

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Re: Idea for new edition: sway - full wayland version
« Reply #11 on: 01. January 2016, 16:21:15 »
I don't think I'm doing this anytime soon. Would be cool, but I lack the time and some necessary technologies are not ready yet in my opinion.

I would not use a login manager, I'd autostart from tty1 on login. But if I would, currently gdm would be the only option.

Gtk3 vs qt5 is the choice. For me it sems that gtk3 has progeressed further at this point, but qt probably catches up at some point.

I think wayland actually makes it possible to run a lighter system if you can avoid xwayland. For me, sway spawns 2 processess totalling 18mb. Just xorg alone is often 40mb for me, so wayland might have something to offer for light systems too =)

Wayland might make a lighter system, but at this point, a pure wayland system without xwayland  does not make any sense at all, there are almost no  native "wayland only" applications available.
I am sure this will change in the future, it only took wayland 8+ years to become what it is now, so maybe wayland as "standard" will become relevant in 2025.
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Offline ringo

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Re: Idea for new edition: sway - full wayland version
« Reply #12 on: 01. January 2016, 21:18:14 »
Dont think its 2025 its also what do the bigger distro... if the little one start more on it...even its not full... users growth more on that point then comes more avaible of wayland.. then comes a point on the 'big' three distro they say, we push wayland mainstream, then it can go quick... To translate on that course has a long way with out braking stuf unneccesary.. linus also dont want to that by the end users more breaks..

a break is always possible offcourse..
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Offline klaatu

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Re: Idea for new edition: sway - full wayland version
« Reply #13 on: 02. January 2016, 20:40:12 »
IMHO from a technological point of view Mir is better than Wayland/Weston because it takes care of the whole user interface (output devices AND input devices).
However, like systemd Wayland will be the norm, therefore I hope sway will be getting better and better.

« Last Edit: 03. January 2016, 09:09:48 by klaatu »

Offline Chrysostomus

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Re: Idea for new edition: sway - full wayland version
« Reply #14 on: 11. January 2016, 03:49:29 »
Okay, I just found out that termite should work on wayland natively. This sounds great, termite is the oenultimate tiling wm terminal anyway :)