Author Topic: Manjaro cli edition  (Read 1872 times)

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Offline Chrysostomus

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Manjaro cli edition
« on: 08. December 2015, 15:49:01 »
Hi,

Theoretically speaking, would there be interest for having cli edition of manjaro?

This is would be different from net edition. Net edition comes with xorg installed and is intended to be used as basis for building a desktop. This would be something that is actually meant to be used at the command line.

It would have:
- No xorg installed
- zsh or fish as shell to make using terminal more comfortable
- tmux/byobu as terminal multiplexer to make taskmanagement easier
- fzf fuzzy finder as dmenu replacement
- netsurf as graphical browser
- gpm to give you mouse in the terminal
- mpv or one of the other videoplayers that work in terminal
- ranger/mc for filemanager
- bmenu to make everything more accessible (pacli and mhwd-tui included)


It would play similarly to i3 or bspwm, but would be much lighter than either of them, because no xorg. As a tradeoff, key combos would be more complex, and you would not be able to use xorg apps (firefox, libreoffice, gedit etc).

Would this be even remotely interesting to anyone?

Offline c00ter

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Re: Manjaro cli edition
« Reply #1 on: 08. December 2015, 20:17:58 »
Hi,

Theoretically speaking, would there be interest for having cli edition of manjaro?

This is would be different from net edition. Net edition comes with xorg installed and is intended to be used as basis for building a desktop. This would be something that is actually meant to be used at the command line.

It would have:
- No xorg installed
- zsh or fish as shell to make using terminal more comfortable
- tmux/byobu as terminal multiplexer to make taskmanagement easier
- fzf fuzzy finder as dmenu replacement
- netsurf as graphical browser
- gpm to give you mouse in the terminal
- mpv or one of the other videoplayers that work in terminal
- ranger/mc for filemanager
- bmenu to make everything more accessible (pacli and mhwd-tui included)


It would play similarly to i3 or bspwm, but would be much lighter than either of them, because no xorg. As a tradeoff, key combos would be more complex, and you would not be able to use xorg apps (firefox, libreoffice, gedit etc).

Would this be even remotely interesting to anyone?

I can see it maybe drawing a few advanced users or those interested in a pseudo-server environment. I don't think the inclusion (or exclusion) of the MJRO-tui will matter much to advanced users. I'm an old DOS commando. I yearn for those bad ol' days of DOS Shell.
“What, me worry?” ― Alfred E. Newman

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Offline withjaro

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Re: Manjaro cli edition
« Reply #2 on: 08. December 2015, 21:55:13 »
I stumbled around with various DE's for a while ... it wasnt until i found Salix's Ratpoison edition that the scales fell from my eyes - even the Salix dev team were surprised by its relative popularity.
These days,i still do a fair amount of stumblng ... but i do have a better understanding of Linux without the 'smog' of GTK/Qt widgets and libraries - its only that Manjaro Xfce+Ob setup is so solid and aesthetic (and Xfce was never partcular a favoured choice for me) that i hesitate to jettison.This is maybe,just more compatiable for my way of thinking (i find it makes me mentally lazy with too much GUI),for others a fully featured DE is a better palette for learning and operating.
So,yeah as c00ter says - it will attract admins who want a no-nonsense server edition (it could initiate a number of Manjaro server-spins with different backends - if devs desire) ... but also from an education perspective,for some - and also porting to ARM or embedded devices.
From a development perspective,i would imaging trying to gain the most performance from the least amount of resources would enthuse most - certainly inspires me,if only my abilities were on a par ... for users its a matter of exposure,tastes and Linux experience,i guess. 

« Last Edit: 09. December 2015, 19:00:26 by withjaro »
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Offline Chrysostomus

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Re: Manjaro cli edition
« Reply #3 on: 09. December 2015, 02:54:06 »
Thanks for the input!
Unfortunately manjaro might not be optimal choice for servers in general, so niche would be small indeed.

Offline withjaro

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Re: Manjaro cli edition
« Reply #4 on: 09. December 2015, 07:50:03 »
Thanks for the input!
Unfortunately manjaro might not be optimal choice for servers in general, so niche would be small indeed.
Yes .. on reflection i agree ... open source business servers will usually be RH/SuSe/Centos,Debian or maybe Slack
I did consider maybe game servers ... but as OpenGL would be a pre-requisite,going Cli as opposed to a DE would be probably pointless.I dont know .. i like black screens with a flashing cursor ... it puts the onus on my input ;)
I still see potentials for Cli ... (albeit my own wisdom deficit) ... but possibly you would have to create the market for people to realise the need ... but then,it took a while for FLOSS ... you dont have a warranty and i cant get it from PC World? No,i dont want transparent software driven by peoples passions  :o
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Offline withjaro

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Re: Manjaro cli edition
« Reply #5 on: 09. December 2015, 08:44:52 »
Incidentally,what would your guesstimate be the minimal operational MB size of a Manjaro distribution?

Then,extending elements of mhwd to facilitate kernel hacking,to custom crop unneeded services - (for say - a netbook ... no DVD-drive ... single processor,wifi,power management,etc) .... how roughly much of the kernel could you shrink ... i think the Linux kernel weighs in approximately 75MB these days? (how the hell do the Tiny Corists do it  :o)

I guess the developer that deals with Manjaro Net-Minimal would be the best counsel for technical aspects of your query,Chrysostomus ... but a straw poll is good ... but if you judge from me and c00ter ... the market is DOS sentimentalists  ;D (The DOS revenge - and a nation of Ruby on Railers stand open-mouthed and smitted  :P)

*Fancy doing a Manjaro based on BLISS instead of C/C++ ... ive got as far as DEC-Net  ::)

VVV* thanks for the answers eugen-b/Chrysostomus ... i have a vague notion ... for instance 'huge' kernel and the mini-disc that get around things by operating within RAM ... like Slitaz (the mark of the spider ;) etc - but yes ... start stripping away essential services without an intimate knowledge of your hardware (a quest more difficult than it sounds  :o) ... and trouble lurks  :P
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« Last Edit: 09. December 2015, 19:00:46 by withjaro »
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Offline eugen-b

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Re: Manjaro cli edition
« Reply #6 on: 09. December 2015, 09:50:52 »
linux-netbook-manjaro-3.14.29-1-i686.pkg.tar.xz is somewhat above 51MB - http://www.paradoxcomputers.com.au/manjaro/repo/netbook/i686/
linux-3.2.71.tazpkg from SliTaz is 5.8M (compressed) / 7.1M (installed) - http://pkgs.slitaz.org/?info=linux
« Last Edit: 09. December 2015, 09:53:35 by eugen-b »
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Offline Chrysostomus

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Re: Manjaro cli edition
« Reply #7 on: 09. December 2015, 11:10:44 »
linux-netbook-manjaro-3.14.29-1-i686.pkg.tar.xz is somewhat above 51MB - http://www.paradoxcomputers.com.au/manjaro/repo/netbook/i686/
linux-3.2.71.tazpkg from SliTaz is 5.8M (compressed) / 7.1M (installed) - http://pkgs.slitaz.org/?info=linux

I think this answers withjaros query - kernel can be compiled more or less slim. Manjaro goes for features while others try to keep it small.

Offline excalibur1234

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Re: Manjaro cli edition
« Reply #8 on: 09. December 2015, 21:23:01 »
i am the maintainer of net-minimal.
when i started it, you always had to install a lot of multilib (= 32bit libraries) packages on 64bit systems. you also had to install PXE and gtk2. most of non-free gpu drivers were included in the ISO images, too.

now, most of these can be easily excluded from community ISO images. this does not make net-minimal obsolete, but there is no unique selling point for it anymore.

i still have some ideas how to slim down net-minimal even further. most of them, i got from Chrysostomus. i will try to include them when i have time for it (which means: at least 6 weeks, maybe longer).
other developers are always welcome to contribute something (ideas or actual commits to github) to net-minimal.


sorry for that kind of off-topic post.
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Offline withjaro

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Re: Manjaro cli edition
« Reply #9 on: 09. December 2015, 22:20:26 »
sorry for that kind of off-topic post.
My apologies to you excalibur1234 ... it was I that put you on the spot a bit  ::)

But you are correct ... CODE speaks louder than words ;) - a bandana and sunglasses help ;D
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Offline c00ter

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Re: Manjaro cli edition
« Reply #10 on: 10. December 2015, 22:34:16 »
Yes .. on reflection i agree ... open source business servers will usually be RH/SuSe/Centos,Debian or maybe Slack

I'm old & bored, so I've read nearly all the forum posts made during the past 3 years. There have been a number of instances of Manjaro enthusiasts using or wanting to use Manjaro as a server OS in a smaller environment. Several were business related. I don't recall how many wanted to use it solely as a file server, an applications server, mail server, or whatnot.
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Re: Manjaro cli edition
« Reply #11 on: 22. December 2015, 14:30:38 »
Well, Manjaro as a server OS, would be just as stable as a server running Arch Linux, maybe even a little more. While Arch is not very popular as a server OS, I do use Arch Linux ARM on my home server. It's on a SoC computer, so it's fairly easy to do. Updating is also easy, if you don't do it very often.

  • Turn off services and the server it self.
  • Pull out the SD card of the OS.
  • Mount the SD card on your desktop PC, and make a Clonezilla image of it.
  • Put the SD card back into the server, fire it up and update.
  • Reboot, see if the updates works. If they do, start your services again.
  • If the updates didn't work, "dd" your Clonezilla image back onto the SD card and wait a month or two, repeat.
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Offline twodogsdave

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Re: Manjaro cli edition
« Reply #12 on: 22. December 2015, 15:02:23 »
Hi,

Theoretically speaking, would there be interest for having cli edition of manjaro?

This is would be different from net edition. Net edition comes with xorg installed and is intended to be used as basis for building a desktop. This would be something that is actually meant to be used at the command line.

It would have:
- No xorg installed
- zsh or fish as shell to make using terminal more comfortable
- tmux/byobu as terminal multiplexer to make taskmanagement easier
- fzf fuzzy finder as dmenu replacement
- netsurf as graphical browser
- gpm to give you mouse in the terminal
- mpv or one of the other videoplayers that work in terminal
- ranger/mc for filemanager
- bmenu to make everything more accessible (pacli and mhwd-tui included)


It would play similarly to i3 or bspwm, but would be much lighter than either of them, because no xorg. As a tradeoff, key combos would be more complex, and you would not be able to use xorg apps (firefox, libreoffice, gedit etc).

Would this be even remotely interesting to anyone?

Sounds like you might enjoy this.