Author Topic: OpenRC News and Download Help for Newbies  (Read 7564 times)

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Offline Tailor

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OpenRC News and Download Help for Newbies
« on: 04. September 2015, 08:58:34 »
I am confused whether we're a "community" build. Why does only Fluxbox edition get a nice blog post?
https://manjaro.github.io/Manjaro-Fluxbox-0.8.13.1-released/
I've never seen one for XFCE OpenRC edition...

Should this Sourceforge page offer "XFCE OpenRC" as well as the other stuff?
http://sourceforge.net/projects/manjarolinux/files/community/

Or if XFCE OpenRC is quasi-standard (ie XFCE is Manjaro's default desktop), then doesn't it belong in the standard download area next to the SystemD spins? It would also help OpenRC adoption to synchronize and fold its ISOs into mainline releases and candidates such as the latest one,
http://distrowatch.com/?newsid=09084

Given an obvious choice, many people would fetch the OpenRC spin over SystemD mainline. Right now, newbies won't even know there is one, unless they are very clued in and find and then study the OpenRC forum notices.

The Manjaro website is already confusing enough with the SSL certificate problem sending people to the wiki. I have a really hard time explaining to people how to get the OpenRC edition. Most people just want to click the most obvious buttons, as you may expect.

And the wiki for "download" only lists FULL or NET edition; it says nothing about OpenRC.
https://wiki.manjaro.org/index.php?title=Download_Manjaro

If the team asks philm I'm sure he would help arrange a more streamlined "newcomer" experience for the OpenRC edition. You guys do fantastic work and it should be on the marquee, not so buried...

PS Will there be an OpenRC ISO corresponding to the latest Manjaro candidate ISO Manjaro Linux 15.09-rc1 ? Thanks

Offline dxrobertson

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Re: OpenRC News and Download Help for Newbies
« Reply #1 on: 04. September 2015, 17:01:13 »
Manjaro Newbie here.  I agree with this completely.  I was in search of specifically an openrc distro and only stumbled onto Manjaro OpenRC by reading the distrowatch review.   I have been happily running this distro on 4 pcs, for several months, and its solid.  I also believe Manjaro OpenRC deserves to be listed atleast as a community addition if not an official edition.


Offline withjaro

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Re: OpenRC News and Download Help for Newbies
« Reply #2 on: 04. September 2015, 17:48:08 »
True,there is an OpenRC main section to the forum ... and in addition to mhwd,OpenRC was the thing that drew me to Manjaro ... the possibilities of a binary system with Gentoo's finer tuning abilities is far too delicious to contemplate :)
But,i think from a newbie perpective,i think an 'INIT' section would make more sense,its directing the student to the fundamentals of the operating of their system ... at the present time Manjaro offers OpenRC and SystemD,thats not say,a maintainer may compile an init entirely different to these (with OpenRC,you still have SysV sitting underneath) ... im still hypothesing on a GRUB2 configuration where you have a package with preloaded configs of all the inits https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Comparison_of_init_systems and the file system will load whichever init you activate.(that sounded back to front  :-\ inits activate file systems ::) ... but well,y'know  :P)
« Last Edit: 04. September 2015, 18:12:55 by withjaro »
< insert your own inspiring quotation - and smile :) >

Offline Tailor

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Re: OpenRC News and Download Help for Newbies
« Reply #3 on: 05. September 2015, 10:27:33 »
But,i think from a newbie perpective,i think an 'INIT' section would make more sense,its directing the student to the fundamentals of the operating of their system
Computer newbies aka Windows expats won't study init systems. At most, Calamares might offer them a checkbox for OpenRC. Otherwise it just needs an obvious download button. One way or the other I could then help them install OpenRC without physical presence on site.

Manjaro Fluxbox has both SystemD and OpenRC spins, which both occupy a common download folder, and get nice joint blog posts.

Certainly the wiki page could use an INIT section, but newbies aren't going to read that. Their eyes totally gloss over when anything technical shows up in their face. It confirms their biases that Linux is "hard" and "for geeks only." The truth is that OpenRC just needs more straightforward release logistics coordinated with mainline, that's all.

I am really glad DW reviewed Manjaro OpenRC. Thanks!

Offline Tailor

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Re: OpenRC News and Download Help for Newbies
« Reply #4 on: 06. September 2015, 05:08:36 »
Manjaro XFCE 15.09-rc1 release notes say
Quote
Although the main installation medias continue to utilise systemd,
Manjaro now optionally offers extensive support for the OpenRC init
system, giving you the power of choice for your init system, something
rarely readily offered in Linux distributions nowadays.
But you click the download link provided, and all you find are SystemD spins. There are no instructions in the release notes or the wiki or really anywhere else how to get OpenRC.

Offline philm

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Re: OpenRC News and Download Help for Newbies
« Reply #5 on: 06. September 2015, 20:13:44 »
OpenRC is a side project from us. We currently only offer community editions. Therefor we are creating a separate download page soon. Then you will find those editions easier. However our attention currently on Manjaro 15.09. As we are a small team we can't handle all at the same time. More will come. Also a new homepage. Roland is already working on it.

Offline Tailor

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Re: OpenRC News and Download Help for Newbies
« Reply #6 on: 07. September 2015, 07:38:34 »
Hi philm, synchronizing releases isn't more work, just communication. Tell the OpenRC crew what git tags to use just prior to related release announcements. They can run make-ISO scripts against those tags, and now both versions are ready for rollout. I appreciate web fixups on the way.

Tip, fix the dichotomy in public statements between
Quote
Manjaro now optionally offers extensive support for the OpenRC init system
and
Quote
OpenRC is a side project from us
I suggest:
Quote
Manjaro's dedicated OpenRC team offers extensive support for the major alternative to systemd, promoting choice and freedom in Manjaro
Thank you and looking forward to 15.09 OpenRC. OpenRC is the main reason I use Manjaro.

Offline conky57

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Re: OpenRC News and Download Help for Newbies
« Reply #7 on: 09. September 2015, 01:08:15 »
Hi philm, synchronizing releases isn't more work, just communication. Tell the OpenRC crew what git tags to use just prior to related release announcements. They can run make-ISO scripts against those tags, and now both versions are ready for rollout. I appreciate web fixups on the way.

Tip, fix the dichotomy in public statements betweenandI suggest:Thank you and looking forward to 15.09 OpenRC. OpenRC is the main reason I use Manjaro.
I have to think that individuals who even know what an init system is would be able to find, download, and install the OpenRC version. I have Plasma 5 w/ OpenRC+eudev installed and running well, and it isn't even available as an iso. However, I am not against it being promoted more obviously.


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Offline Tailor

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Re: OpenRC News and Download Help for Newbies
« Reply #8 on: 09. September 2015, 01:59:45 »
individuals who even know ... would ... find ... OpenRC
Of course but reread my earlier statement, that you can't ask people who don't to install it. They get lost.

Even I am sometimes lost with what is the current version of OpenRC XFCE and how it dovetails with mainline. The solution is very simple and easy, communication between teams and coordinated releases. Thanks.

Offline notageek

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Re: OpenRC News and Download Help for Newbies
« Reply #9 on: 09. September 2015, 12:04:11 »
Any chance in future to get an Openrc KDE iso or a complete kde iso-profile?
Plasma 5 Kernel 319-318 on Dell Precision M4800 i7 4800MQ NVidia Optimus K1100M + Intel HD 4600 16 GB RAM SSD Samsung 840 Pro
Plasma 5 Kernel 44-41 on Lenovo X1 Carbon Gen3 i5 5200 Intel HD 5500 8 GB RAM SSD Samsung SM951

Offline conky57

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Re: OpenRC News and Download Help for Newbies
« Reply #10 on: 09. September 2015, 12:54:12 »
Of course but reread my earlier statement, that you can't ask people who don't to install it. They get lost.

Even I am sometimes lost with what is the current version of OpenRC XFCE and how it dovetails with mainline. The solution is very simple and easy, communication between teams and coordinated releases. Thanks.
I agree it can, and hopefully will become more obvious that there is an alternative init system. My point is that it may not be all that much of a priority to most users, especially beginners. I certainly appreciate the fact that we are offered the choice. :)


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Offline conky57

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Re: OpenRC News and Download Help for Newbies
« Reply #11 on: 09. September 2015, 13:02:24 »
Any chance in future to get an Openrc KDE iso or a complete kde iso-profile?
It is fairly straightforward to install OpenRC on a Plasma 5 install. The wiki instructions are comprehensive, and the forum covers things from there.
With some reading, it can be accomplished relatively easily. ;)


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Re: OpenRC News and Download Help for Newbies
« Reply #12 on: 09. September 2015, 14:29:20 »
It is fairly straightforward to install OpenRC on a Plasma 5 install. The wiki instructions are comprehensive, and the forum covers things from there.
With some reading, it can be accomplished relatively easily. ;)


Best regards.

What he ^ said.

I don't think that it is a very good move for GNU/Linux beginners to be mucking about converting the init system of a distro (OS) that they already don't know much about to begin with...

Beyond that, the wiki gives great info on converting/using an OpenRC system, & supplies some very useful links for those that would like to learn more about it. Let alone what can be found by searching the web (which may sound harsh on this forum). If you are going to be converting to OpenRC, you really should have done some research first.

Beyond all of that, after I'd installed OpenRc on one machine & then converted my main machine to it, I've found OpenRC to be transparent in my day to day computer use (apart from my machine being a bit quicker here & there). :)

Such a magnificent job has been done by all of those concerned. :D <hat's off>
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Offline notageek

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Re: OpenRC News and Download Help for Newbies
« Reply #13 on: 09. September 2015, 23:35:14 »
done  ;)

let's play around for a bit...
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Offline Tailor

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Re: OpenRC News and Download Help for Newbies
« Reply #14 on: 10. September 2015, 08:13:38 »
Probably I should add an obvious point about visibility, that the more users of OpenRC, the more QA testing it gets on more hardware. And the more visible, the more "approved" it feels to newcomers, too.

I agree beginners should not muck around with init systems. They should just use the OpenRC iso install procedure.

I think OpenRC is more reliable than systemd and so recommend it to everyone, business and casual user alike. Newcomers can't be expected to know any priorities at all, init system or desktop or otherwise, so I try to help in this manner.