Author Topic: Booting with OpenRC: An alternative to systemd  (Read 73488 times)

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Offline jonathon

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Re: Booting with OpenRC: An alternative to systemd
« Reply #30 on: 20. June 2014, 17:28:31 »
This looks interesting, and I think I'll give it a go.

Testing it in a VM is probably not going to let me know if it's worth it or not. ;) In case things break is it easy enough to remove? Setting the init back to systemd is obviously the start of it, but will everything else uninstall without leaving cruft?
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Offline schpankme

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Re: Booting with OpenRC: An alternative to systemd
« Reply #31 on: 20. June 2014, 17:30:56 »
... I am convinced it will be snappier with OpenRC

There's no reason to use Systemd.


Code: [Select]
Linux Kernel Developers Fed Up With Ridiculous Bugs In Systemd
systemdPublished on 02 April 2014 09:46 PM EDT

Written by Michael Larabel in systemd
"Steven Rostedt ended up sending to the Linux kernel mailing list a patch that would hide the debug string
from appearing in the kernel command-line as to hide it from systemd and reserve it just for kernel use.
Steven wrote, "we OWN the kernel command line, and as such, we can keep the users from seeing stuff on
it if we so choose. "

What else will be hid from the "users"?

Looks like they are throwing the baby out with the bath water.
« Last Edit: 20. June 2014, 17:54:25 by schpankme »

Offline AJSlye

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Re: Booting with OpenRC: An alternative to systemd
« Reply #32 on: 20. June 2014, 17:39:59 »
Is Manjaro thinking about dropping systemd and replacing it with openrc in the future?
If so I will have to start looking for another distribution again. When Arch moved to systemd from openrc is when I actually starting to consider using it, I had no desire to even try it before that, I have no intention on using something that moves backwards.

Offline aaditya

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Re: Booting with OpenRC: An alternative to systemd
« Reply #33 on: 20. June 2014, 17:40:53 »
This looks interesting, and I think I'll give it a go.

Testing it in a VM is probably not going to let me know if it's worth it or not. ;) In case things break is it easy enough to remove? Setting the init back to systemd is obviously the start of it, but will everything else uninstall without leaving cruft?
Yes, I think so :)
Though I have tried it in various VMs too to see how things work..

If you are on unstable, to install,
Code: [Select]
sudo pacman -R systemd-sysvcomapt
sudo pacman -S sysvinit
sudo pacman -S openrc-base
sudo pacman -S displaymanager-openrc
sudo pacman -S alsa-utils-openrc

At this point you have not removed apart from systemd-sysvcompat, which are just a bunch of symlinks..
However if you also want to install networkmanager-openrc, that would require consolekit, which replaces the polkit in the repos with its own.

To go back to systemd, use the init=/usr/lib/systemd/systemd method, or just install systemd-sysvcompat..
The wiki lists some of this: https://wiki.manjaro.org/index.php?title=Openrc


Offline aaditya

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Re: Booting with OpenRC: An alternative to systemd
« Reply #34 on: 20. June 2014, 17:43:11 »
Is Manjaro thinking about dropping systemd and replacing it with openrc in the future?
If so I will have to start looking for another distribution again. When Arch moved to systemd from openrc is when I actually starting to consider using it, I had no desire to even try it before that, I have no intention on using something that moves backwards.
I dont think so. Its just an alternative for interested users.

Offline artoo

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Re: Booting with OpenRC: An alternative to systemd
« Reply #35 on: 20. June 2014, 17:48:28 »

What is will be hid from the "users"?

Looks like they are throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Bingo.

The reason I do openrc for arch based systems, I have a problem with a functionalitiy absorbing ever growing very complex "init", which develops steadily kernel like features.

The day, systemd tries to replace the linux kernel will be the official death of linux. Atm linux is dying a slow death, caused by an all out attack on the very principle of open source, gnu linux.

You get with systemd a lindows, components which used to be modular and could be replaced, are all absorbed into systemd source. At some point, nobody will understand systemd source any more, because it also pulls in a huge amount of forced dependencies. So the systemd source is only a fraction of the real code base it uses.

Take logind, no bad idea to replace consolekit, but since systemd version 206, logind requires a running systemd voodoo.

Offline AJSlye

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Re: Booting with OpenRC: An alternative to systemd
« Reply #36 on: 20. June 2014, 17:52:39 »
Oh good, I was not looking forward to having to find another distribution that works for me again. I guess I could always just move to the Netrunner Standard version, but I like the Rolling Version so much more, not to mention that I never cared for anything Ubuntu or Debian based, LOL

Thanks
AJ
« Last Edit: 20. June 2014, 17:55:19 by AJSlye »

Offline schpankme

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Re: Booting with OpenRC: An alternative to systemd
« Reply #37 on: 20. June 2014, 18:06:44 »

If you are on unstable, to install,
Code: [Select]
sudo pacman -R systemd-sysvcomapt
sudo pacman -S sysvinit
sudo pacman -S openrc-base
sudo pacman -S displaymanager-openrc
sudo pacman -S alsa-utils-openrc


For those who want the volume mixer applet on the Panel, install Pnmixer.

Code: [Select]
sudo pacman -S pnmixer
Configure pnmixer to use alsa
From terminal start:  pnmixer

Right-click pnmixer icon > Preferences, > [Behavior] tab
Under 'Volume Control Command' add:  gnome-alsamixer
Click OK

reboot
« Last Edit: 21. June 2014, 08:52:02 by schpankme »

Offline jonathon

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Re: Booting with OpenRC: An alternative to systemd
« Reply #38 on: 20. June 2014, 18:19:49 »
However if you also want to install networkmanager-openrc, that would require consolekit, which replaces the polkit in the repos with its own.
Looks like networkmanager-openrc needs dbus-openrc... this is getting a little more complicated. :D

I haven't had this much fun for a while. :D

Edit:
And without network access I have to use USB. And with a recent update when inserting a USB flash drive nothing happens (it does not show up at all, not in a file manager, not in lsusb, not in dmesg). :D

Edit 2:
OK, so I plugged in an ethernet cable and started dhcpcd, that gave me network access again. Phew!

Edit 3:
I think I have NetworkManager running. ZFS does not start correctly on boot, though, and there doesn't seem to be an init script for tor...

Edit 4:
OK, so it looks promising but it's not quite there for me yet. Some things definitely load quicker (e.g. Chrome).
« Last Edit: 20. June 2014, 18:44:41 by jonathon »
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Offline aaditya

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« Last Edit: 20. June 2014, 18:51:32 by aaditya »

Offline artoo

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Re: Booting with OpenRC: An alternative to systemd
« Reply #40 on: 20. June 2014, 18:57:47 »
Looks like networkmanager-openrc needs dbus-openrc... this is getting a little more complicated. :D

I haven't had this much fun for a while. :D


Thanks, I added ck-openrc and dbus-openrc to NM depends.

I can add tor.
Added tor to openrc-net

I think zfs needs to be recompiled, as there is a initscript.in in the source.
« Last Edit: 20. June 2014, 19:03:32 by artoo »

Offline jonathon

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Re: Booting with OpenRC: An alternative to systemd
« Reply #41 on: 20. June 2014, 20:18:02 »
I wonder whether
Code: [Select]
# rc-update add zfs bootwould get ZFS working...

Just to check I could, I went back to systemd. Not very complicated to reverse, but I did have to allow removal of a load of extra packages and reinstall them (e.g. ufw, gufw, networkmanager, network-manager-applet).
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Offline artoo

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Re: Booting with OpenRC: An alternative to systemd
« Reply #42 on: 20. June 2014, 20:21:52 »
I wonder whether
Code: [Select]
# rc-update add zfs bootwould get ZFS working...

Just to check I could, I went back to systemd. Not very complicated to reverse, but I did have to allow removal of a load of extra packages and reinstall them (e.g. ufw, gufw, networkmanager, network-manager-applet).

If there is a /etc/init.d/zfs
there you go. Add it to boot runlevel ;)

Offline schpankme

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Re: Booting with OpenRC: An alternative to systemd
« Reply #43 on: 21. June 2014, 02:55:03 »
Issue: Installing Chrome

Unrelated

« Last Edit: 21. June 2014, 23:35:13 by schpankme »

Offline schpankme

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Re: Booting with OpenRC: An alternative to systemd
« Reply #44 on: 21. June 2014, 10:27:29 »
Problem was created by limiting "pacman-mirrors" to only "United_States", i.e. files missing

Solution was to comment out "OnlyCountry" of pacman-mirrors.conf;
sudo pacman -Syyu
yaourt -Syuua

pacman-mirrors.conf
## Specify to use only mirrors from a specific country
## Disabled by default
##OnlyCountry=United_States