Manjaro Linux Forum

Support for Community Editions => Others => Fluxbox => Topic started by: undeuchaeta on 05. January 2016, 09:00:09

Title: Applications failing to start
Post by: undeuchaeta on 05. January 2016, 09:00:09
Hello All, this is my first post to the Manjaro forums. By way of introduction I have used Linux exclusively for 13 years including Arch for about a year. I am hoping to use Manjaro instead of Arch to make maintenance a little easier ... although I still love the mighty Arch!

Firstly thank you to the Manjaro devs and to Oberon for Manjaro Fluxbox.

My question/problem: I have just installed the Fluxbox edition of Manjaro. It worked fine, there were no updates and I installed grub-customizer. I restarted to check my new Grub font and I found a strange problem: no applications will now start from the menu or from the dock at the bottom of the screen. Nor will keystrokes such as Mod4 + d work. Restarting does not help. The machine is a Thinkpad T400.

Any suggestions please?

Thanks, Bill
Title: Re: Applications failing to start
Post by: eugen-b on 05. January 2016, 10:42:49
Do you happen to have the OpenRC version? Can you provide some system info with inxi -F ?
Title: Re: Applications failing to start
Post by: undeuchaeta on 05. January 2016, 11:40:50
Thanks for the quick response eugen-b, I should have mentioned that it is the OpenRC version.

I just restared the machine and now the bottom applications dock has not started. The menu starts but no other applications will.

To get the following I installed openssh (using tty6) and then logged in from another machine:

$ inxi -F
System:    Host: 192-168-1-13.tpgi.com.au Kernel: 4.1.15-1-MANJARO x86_64 (64 bit) Console: tty 0
           Distro: ManjaroLinux 15.12 Capella
Machine:   System: LENOVO product: 6475DL2 v: ThinkPad T400
           Mobo: LENOVO model: 6475DL2 Bios: LENOVO v: 7UET79WW (3.09 ) date: 10/13/2009
CPU:       Dual core Intel Core2 Duo P8700 (-MCP-) cache: 3072 KB
           clock speeds: max: 2534 MHz 1: 1600 MHz 2: 1600 MHz
Graphics:  Card: Intel Mobile 4 Series Integrated Graphics Controller
           Display Server: N/A driver: intel tty size: 130x48 Advanced Data: N/A out of X
Audio:     Card Intel 82801I (ICH9 Family) HD Audio Controller driver: snd_hda_intel
           Sound: Advanced Linux Sound Architecture v: k4.1.15-1-MANJARO
Network:   Card-1: Intel 82567LM Gigabit Network Connection driver: e1000e
           IF: enp0s25 state: down mac: 00:22:68:1b:06:40
           Card-2: Intel PRO/Wireless 5100 AGN [Shiloh] Network Connection driver: iwlwifi
           IF: wlp3s0 state: up mac: 00:26:c6:6c:27:f4
Drives:    HDD Total Size: 160.0GB (3.6% used) ID-1: /dev/sda model: HITACHI_HTS72321 size: 160.0GB
Partition: ID-1: / size: 145G used: 3.6G (3%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/sda1
           ID-2: swap-1 size: 2.04GB used: 0.00GB (0%) fs: swap dev: /dev/sda2
Sensors:   None detected - is lm-sensors installed and configured?
Info:      Processes: 121 Uptime: 10 min Memory: 216.8/3851.3MB Init: SysVinit rc: OpenRC runlevel: default
           Client: Shell (bash) inxi: 2.2.31


Thanks
Bill
Title: Re: Applications failing to start
Post by: eugen-b on 05. January 2016, 11:57:11
I should not have asked for inxi -F if it made so much hassle, but too late. I guessed that, because you system shows similar symptoms to mine (https://forum.manjaro.org/index.php?topic=29732.msg246961#msg246961) when I run an application which was compiled with
--enable-systemd. To be sure we should probably look into the PKGBUILD (https://github.com/manjaro/packages-community/blob/master/grub-customizer/PKGBUILD) of grub-customizer. I would like to quote from the thread here:
For me the issue with so called Cisco AnyConnect compatuble VPN (openconnect) is still the same or even a bit worse. On Fluxbox, after I start a connection I cannot start any othe application from menu or Alt+F2. Even after I disconnect I cannot start anything. Ctrl+Alt+Del gets me logged out and after logging in I can start anything. I will check on Xfce in a minute.
Edit: Still on Fluxbox, I cannot reproduce the issue. I can launch applications after I disconnected from VPN, no nee fot relogin. But I cannot, as I reported before, launch anything while connected to VPN (openconnect).

Edit2: Now on Xfce, I can launch any application while connected to VPN. So, either a Fluxbox or a OpenRC problem. Will install vpn stuff on LXQt and see.

Edit3: Tested on LXQt, same behaviour as on Fluxbox, so likely an OpenRC issue. On LXQt I can reproduce the more severe problem, that I cannot launch anything after having connected to VPN. Disconnecting doesn't help. I cannot even log out, although I assigned a keyboard shortcut for lxqt-leave --logout. This is an LXQt issue I think. I think this severe issue comes when you connect to VPN first time. Without the ability to log out I cannot test if this would happen second time or be more like on Fluxbox.

That's no openrc issue, rather than the 'beauty' of systemd mission creep showing.

openvpn PKGBUILD has this:

Code: [Select]
    --enable-systemd

So recompiling the package with

Code: [Select]
--disable-systemd
would solve the issue.

That said, without help, I alone cannot and will not maintain almost an entire repo with deactivated systemd features.

https://forum.manjaro.org/index.php?topic=26749.60

Things may brighten when a build server is available. Atm, its mission impossible if we want a current systemd free system.
Title: Re: Applications failing to start
Post by: eugen-b on 05. January 2016, 12:11:48
probably a wrong guess, because PKGBUILD (https://github.com/manjaro/packages-community/blob/master/grub-customizer/PKGBUILD) of grub-customizer doesn't have --enable-systemd as far as I see
Title: Re: Applications failing to start
Post by: oberon on 05. January 2016, 12:17:57
Well grub-customizer as you can see doesn't simply have a build-flag we could change so easily. It might very well just not work under OpenRC... :P It's just one very special application that is not so easy to get rid of once you have it installed, and that's one reason for me why I am not offering to experiment with building an OpenRC-version of it - I simply don't want to install that application again. I had it in the past and it kept screwing up my grub-screen... ;) Much has been written about grub-customizer in this forum... ...

May I suggest, @undeuchaeta, since your install is new anyway and I guess you will not have too many customizations now, that you simply reinstall and maybe just forget grub-customizer? Or if it is important for you to use it, then maybe install the Systemd version?

@eugen-b, btw, meanwhile artoo was so kind as to actually build that openvpn-openrc package and it is now available 8)
Title: Re: Applications failing to start
Post by: eugen-b on 05. January 2016, 12:34:09
You can make custom menu entries with /etc/grub.d/40_custom file. Mine looks a bit long, it has these /@lxqt/... and rootflags=subvol=@lxqt entries, because I need this for booting systems on different btrfs subvolumes which cannot be automatically found by update-grub command.
Other goodies of grub-customizer this file cannot provide you with. But fonts, background etc. can be changed with modifying config files as well. Just check the Arch Wiki.

Code: [Select]
#!/bin/sh
exec tail -n +3 $0
# This file provides an easy way to add custom menu entries.  Simply type the
# menu entries you want to add after this comment.  Be careful not to change
# the 'exec tail' line above.
menuentry 'Manjaro Linux LXQt OpenRC (4.1)' --class manjaro --class gnu-linux --class gnu --class os $menuentry_id_option 'gnulinux-simple-3b21f273-239c-45ef-81da-29e12bbe1fc9' {
# savedefault
load_video
set gfxpayload=keep
insmod gzio
insmod part_msdos
insmod btrfs
set root='hd0,msdos1'
if [ x$feature_platform_search_hint = xy ]; then
  search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root --hint-bios=hd0,msdos1 --hint-efi=hd0,msdos1 --hint-baremetal=ahci0,msdos1  3b21f273-239c-45ef-81da-29e12bbe1fc9
else
  search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root 3b21f273-239c-45ef-81da-29e12bbe1fc9
fi
echo 'Loading Linux 4.1.13-1-MANJARO x64 ...'
linux /@lxqt/boot/vmlinuz-4.1-x86_64 root=UUID=3b21f273-239c-45ef-81da-29e12bbe1fc9 rw rootflags=subvol=@lxqt  quiet
echo 'Loading initial ramdisk ...'
initrd /@lxqt/boot/intel-ucode.img /@lxqt/boot/initramfs-4.1-x86_64.img
}
menuentry 'Manjaro Linux Fluxbox OpenRC (3.18)' --class manjaro --class gnu-linux --class gnu --class os $menuentry_id_option 'gnulinux-simple-3b21f273-239c-45ef-81da-29e12bbe1fc9' {
# savedefault
load_video
set gfxpayload=keep
insmod gzio
insmod part_msdos
insmod btrfs
set root='hd0,msdos1'
if [ x$feature_platform_search_hint = xy ]; then
  search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root --hint-bios=hd0,msdos1 --hint-efi=hd0,msdos1 --hint-baremetal=ahci0,msdos1  3b21f273-239c-45ef-81da-29e12bbe1fc9
else
  search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root 3b21f273-239c-45ef-81da-29e12bbe1fc9
fi
echo 'Loading Linux 3.18.23-1-MANJARO x64 ...'
linux /@fluxbox/boot/vmlinuz-3.18-x86_64 root=UUID=3b21f273-239c-45ef-81da-29e12bbe1fc9 rw rootflags=subvol=@fluxbox  quiet
echo 'Loading initial ramdisk ...'
initrd /@fluxbox/boot/intel-ucode.img /@fluxbox/boot/initramfs-3.18-x86_64.img
}
#menuentry 'Manjaro Linux Fluxbox OpenRC (3.18) (on /dev/sdb6)' --class manjaro --class gnu-linux --class gnu --class os $menuentry_id_option 'gnulinux-simple-e35d9090-d6bb-4707-9f16-5eaef83060bc' {
# savedefault
# load_video
# set gfxpayload=keep
# insmod gzio
# insmod part_msdos
# insmod btrfs
# set root='hd1,msdos6'
# if [ x$feature_platform_search_hint = xy ]; then
#   search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root --hint-bios=hd1,msdos6 --hint-efi=hd1,msdos6 --hint-baremetal=ahci1,msdos6  e35d9090-d6bb-4707-9f16-5eaef83060bc
# else
#   search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root e35d9090-d6bb-4707-9f16-5eaef83060bc
# fi
# echo 'Loading Linux 3.18.25-1-MANJARO x64 ...'
# linux /@fluxbox/boot/vmlinuz-3.18-x86_64 root=UUID=e35d9090-d6bb-4707-9f16-5eaef83060bc rw rootflags=subvol=@fluxbox  quiet
# echo 'Loading initial ramdisk ...'
# initrd /@fluxbox/boot/intel-ucode.img /@fluxbox/boot/initramfs-3.18-x86_64.img
#}
#menuentry 'Manjaro Linux MATE (4.1)' --class manjaro --class gnu-linux --class gnu --class os $menuentry_id_option 'gnulinux-simple-3b21f273-239c-45ef-81da-29e12bbe1fc9' {
## savedefault
# load_video
# set gfxpayload=keep
# insmod gzio
# insmod part_msdos
# insmod btrfs
# set root='hd0,msdos1'
# if [ x$feature_platform_search_hint = xy ]; then
#   search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root --hint-bios=hd0,msdos1 --hint-efi=hd0,msdos1 --hint-baremetal=ahci0,msdos1  3b21f273-239c-45ef-81da-29e12bbe1fc9
# else
#   search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root 3b21f273-239c-45ef-81da-29e12bbe1fc9
# fi
# echo 'Loading Linux 4.1.13-1-MANJARO x64 ...'
# linux /@mate/boot/vmlinuz-4.1-x86_64 root=UUID=3b21f273-239c-45ef-81da-29e12bbe1fc9 rw rootflags=subvol=@mate  quiet
# echo 'Loading initial ramdisk ...'
# initrd /@mate/boot/intel-ucode.img /@mate/boot/initramfs-4.1-x86_64.img
#}
#menuentry 'Manjaro Linux MATE (4.1) (on /dev/sdb7)' --class manjaro --class gnu-linux --class gnu --class os $menuentry_id_option 'gnulinux-simple-cd103469-f4f1-47b2-b2fd-a61541077382' {
# savedefault
# load_video
# set gfxpayload=keep
# insmod gzio
# insmod part_msdos
# insmod btrfs
# set root='hd1,msdos7'
# if [ x$feature_platform_search_hint = xy ]; then
#   search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root --hint-bios=hd1,msdos7 --hint-efi=hd1,msdos7 --hint-baremetal=ahci1,msdos7  cd103469-f4f1-47b2-b2fd-a61541077382
# else
#   search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root cd103469-f4f1-47b2-b2fd-a61541077382
# fi
# echo 'Loading Linux 4.1.15-1-MANJARO x64 ...'
# linux /@mate/boot/vmlinuz-4.1-x86_64 root=UUID=cd103469-f4f1-47b2-b2fd-a61541077382 rw rootflags=subvol=@mate  quiet
# echo 'Loading initial ramdisk ...'
# initrd /@mate/boot/intel-ucode.img /@mate/boot/initramfs-4.1-x86_64.img
#}
#menuentry 'Manjaro Linux Xfce OpenRC (4.1) (on /dev/sdb7)' --class manjaro --class gnu-linux --class gnu --class os $menuentry_id_option 'gnulinux-simple-cd103469-f4f1-47b2-b2fd-a61541077382' {
# savedefault
# load_video
# set gfxpayload=keep
# insmod gzio
# insmod part_msdos
# insmod btrfs
# set root='hd1,msdos7'
# if [ x$feature_platform_search_hint = xy ]; then
#   search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root --hint-bios=hd1,msdos7 --hint-efi=hd1,msdos7 --hint-baremetal=ahci1,msdos7  cd103469-f4f1-47b2-b2fd-a61541077382
# else
#   search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root cd103469-f4f1-47b2-b2fd-a61541077382
# fi
# echo 'Loading Linux 4.1.9-1-MANJARO x64 ...'
# linux /@xfopnrc/boot/vmlinuz-4.1-x86_64 root=UUID=cd103469-f4f1-47b2-b2fd-a61541077382 rw rootflags=subvol=@xfopnrc 
# echo 'Loading initial ramdisk ...'
# initrd /@xfopnrc/boot/initramfs-4.1-x86_64.img
#}
#menuentry 'Manjaro Linux LXQt (4.2) (auf /dev/sdb1)' {#--class gnu-linux --class gnu --class os $menuentry_id_option 'osprober-gnulinux-simple-e7ff59de-27dc-4ecc-b06c-d988a23b98cb' {
# savedefault
# insmod part_msdos
# insmod btrfs
# set root='hd1,msdos1'
# if [ x$feature_platform_search_hint = xy ]; then
#   search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root --hint-bios=hd1,msdos1 --hint-efi=hd1,msdos1 --hint-baremetal=ahci1,msdos1  a0168add-2460-45b8-91e8-519603e6a1af
# else
#   search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root a0168add-2460-45b8-91e8-519603e6a1af
# fi
# linux /@lxqt/boot/vmlinuz-4.2-x86_64 root=UUID=a0168add-2460-45b8-91e8-519603e6a1af rw rootflags=subvol=@lxqt ipv6.disable=1  quiet
# initrd /@lxqt/boot/intel-ucode.img /@lxqt/boot/initramfs-4.2-x86_64.img
#}
#menuentry 'Manjaro Linux LXQt (4.4) (auf /dev/sdb1)' {#--class gnu-linux --class gnu --class os $menuentry_id_option 'osprober-gnulinux-simple-e7ff59de-27dc-4ecc-b06c-d988a23b98cb' {
# savedefault
# insmod part_msdos
# insmod btrfs
# set root='hd1,msdos1'
# if [ x$feature_platform_search_hint = xy ]; then
#   search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root --hint-bios=hd1,msdos1 --hint-efi=hd1,msdos1 --hint-baremetal=ahci1,msdos1  a0168add-2460-45b8-91e8-519603e6a1af
# else
#   search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root a0168add-2460-45b8-91e8-519603e6a1af
## fi
# linux /@lxqt/boot/vmlinuz-4.4-x86_64 root=UUID=a0168add-2460-45b8-91e8-519603e6a1af rw rootflags=subvol=@lxqt ipv6.disable=1  quiet
# initrd /@lxqt/boot/intel-ucode.img /@lxqt/boot/initramfs-4.4-x86_64.img
#}

@oberon, artoo is a hero! It is true that there is a openvpn-openrc available, but openconnect and ntworkmanager-openconnect is the problem. However it's probably not a widely used package.
Title: Re: Applications failing to start
Post by: undeuchaeta on 05. January 2016, 22:33:40
Thanks again eugen-b and oberon. It was no problem to install SSH - I love tinkering!

I have done several installs today and I think that the problem is with Network Manager in both the Fluxbox and i3 editions. First with Fluxbox:

- The problem occurs with or without grub-customizer.
- It is not a failing HDD: The HDD was a bit loud (the machine is a few years old) so I used a different internal HDD today.
- I tried using Calmares and the CLI installer: this made no difference to the problem.

- All applications will start and will continue to do so after numerous re-boots until I use Network Manager to connect to the WiFi. Once that is done applications continue to start until the machine is re-booted. When that happens:

1. The dock appears only occasionally on re-boots
2. The only item which the menu can start is Customization -> Dock
3. Tools -> Settings -> Firewall Configuration and Manjaro Settings Manager open authentication dialogs but then nothing.

Next I tried the i3 OpenRC Manjaro and I get the same problem! Applications open using dmenu or keystrokes until I use Network Manager - then after a restart Mod + d does nothing, Mod + enter results in a spinning hourglass.

These are, of course, the 15.12 versions and md5sums are correct.

Cheers, Bill
Title: Re: Applications failing to start
Post by: eugen-b on 05. January 2016, 22:54:22
Hello Bill,
since you already tried i3 I can give you links to other OpenRC editions of Manjaro:
Xfce+OpenBox: http://sourceforge.net/projects/manjaro-openrc/files/15.12/xfce+ob/
Net: http://sourceforge.net/projects/manjaro-openrc/files/15.12/net/
LXQt minimal: http://sourceforge.net/projects/manjaro-testing/files/minimal/lxqt-minimal/15.12/
But maybe waiting with new installs is a better idea, because Oberon already opened a thread to look for a solution: https://forum.manjaro.org/index.php?topic=29844

A different approach would be to purge NetworkManager and install wicd on your already installed Manjaro instances. https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Wicd (The info on Arch Wiki is for systemd systems.)
There is also a wicd-openrc package available.
This might work or not, I don't know.
Title: Re: Applications failing to start
Post by: oberon on 05. January 2016, 23:08:03
Weird stuff. I cannot reproduce this in any case. Typing from the live environment from USB stick with i3-openrc ... ;)
Does this happen to you only after hard installation or in the live environment, too? After or before the latest package updates?
Another shot in the wild: Might it be your wireless hardware / driver ? It is also strange that no one else has reported such an issue!
Title: Re: Applications failing to start
Post by: artoo on 05. January 2016, 23:12:28
Yes, please provide more information, eg

Code: [Select]
rc-status --all
/var/log/*.log snippets
Title: Re: Applications failing to start
Post by: undeuchaeta on 06. January 2016, 08:39:08
eugen-b, oberon and artoo,

Thanks again for the time you have put into this.

The problem only occurs after a re-boot so it cannot be recreated using a live disk.
I do not do any package updates - there are none to update anyway.
My network cards:
Network:   Card-1: Intel 82567LM Gigabit Network Connection driver: e1000e
           IF: enp0s25 state: down mac: 00:22:68:1b:06:40
           Card-2: Intel PRO/Wireless 5100 AGN [Shiloh] Network Connection driver: iwlwifi
           IF: wlp3s0 state: up mac: 00:26:c6:6c:27:f4


Using a fresh install I tried an ethernet cable instead of connecting to the wireless - as soon as the machine was connected I could not start any applications.

rc-status --all     # before connecting to wireless:

$ rc-status --all
Runlevel: default
 dbus                                  [  started  ]
 NetworkManager                        [ inactive  ]
 syslog-ng                             [  started  ]
 acpid                                 [  started  ]
 bluetooth                             [  started  ]
 cgmanager                             [  started  ]
 consolekit                            [  started  ]
 cronie                                [  started  ]
 cupsd                                 [  started  ]
 netmount                              [ scheduled ]
 xdm                                   [  started  ]
 local                                 [  started  ]
Runlevel: sysinit
 devfs                                 [  started  ]
 kmod-static-nodes                     [  started  ]
 sysfs                                 [  started  ]
 udev                                  [  started  ]
 dmesg                                 [  started  ]
 tmpfiles.dev                          [  started  ]
 udev-trigger                          [  started  ]
Runlevel: boot
 modules                               [  started  ]
 fsck                                  [  started  ]
 root                                  [  started  ]
 mtab                                  [  started  ]
 swap                                  [  started  ]
 localmount                            [  started  ]
 tmpfiles.setup                        [  started  ]
 sysctl                                [  started  ]
 bootmisc                              [  started  ]
 termencoding                          [  started  ]
 keymaps                               [  started  ]
 swapfiles                             [  started  ]
 procfs                                [  started  ]
 loopback                              [  started  ]
 net.lo                                [  started  ]
 urandom                               [  started  ]
 hostname                              [  started  ]
 binfmt                                [  started  ]
Runlevel: shutdown
 killprocs                             [  stopped  ]
 savecache                             [  stopped  ]
 mount-ro                              [  stopped  ]
Dynamic Runlevel: hotplugged
Dynamic Runlevel: needed/wanted
 xdm-setup                             [  started  ]
 avahi-daemon                          [  started  ]
Dynamic Runlevel: manual


rc-status --all     # after connecting to wireless:

$ rc-status --all
Runlevel: default
 dbus                                  [  started  ]
 NetworkManager                        [  started  ]
 syslog-ng                             [  started  ]
 acpid                                 [  started  ]
 bluetooth                             [  started  ]
 cgmanager                             [  started  ]
 consolekit                            [  started  ]
 cronie                                [  started  ]
 cupsd                                 [  started  ]
 netmount                              [  started  ]
 xdm                                   [  started  ]
 local                                 [  started  ]
Runlevel: sysinit
 devfs                                 [  started  ]
 kmod-static-nodes                     [  started  ]
 sysfs                                 [  started  ]
 udev                                  [  started  ]
 dmesg                                 [  started  ]
 tmpfiles.dev                          [  started  ]
 udev-trigger                          [  started  ]
Runlevel: boot
 modules                               [  started  ]
 fsck                                  [  started  ]
 root                                  [  started  ]
 mtab                                  [  started  ]
 swap                                  [  started  ]
 localmount                            [  started  ]
 tmpfiles.setup                        [  started  ]
 sysctl                                [  started  ]
 bootmisc                              [  started  ]
 termencoding                          [  started  ]
 keymaps                               [  started  ]
 swapfiles                             [  started  ]
 procfs                                [  started  ]
 loopback                              [  started  ]
 net.lo                                [  started  ]
 urandom                               [  started  ]
 hostname                              [  started  ]
 binfmt                                [  started  ]
Runlevel: shutdown
 killprocs                             [  stopped  ]
 savecache                             [  stopped  ]
 mount-ro                              [  stopped  ]
Dynamic Runlevel: hotplugged
Dynamic Runlevel: needed/wanted
 xdm-setup                             [  started  ]
 avahi-daemon                          [  started  ]
Dynamic Runlevel: manual


Cheers,
Bill
Title: Re: Applications failing to start
Post by: undeuchaeta on 08. January 2016, 09:47:10
Hello All,

I have been trying various Manjaro editions on this troublesome machine and on my Thinkpad x200s. It seems that the OpenRC Fluxbox and i3 editions will not work with my two Thinkpads but the XFCE OpenRC edition does work. All the systemd editions work.

Release                    works after connection to network?
-------                    ----------------------------------

Lenovo Thinkpad T400

Fluxbox openrc  15.12      NO
Fluxbox systemd 15.12      YES
Fluxbox openrc  15.11      NO
Fluxbox openrc  0.8.13.1   NO   (first Fluxbox openrc version?)
Fluxbox systemd 0.8.13.1   YES

i3      openrc  15.12      NO
i3      systemd 15.12      YES
i3      openrc  15.11      NO
i3      openrc  0.8.13.1   NO  (first Fluxbox openrc version?)
i3      systemd 0.8.13.1   YES

jwm     systemd 15.12      YES
lxqt    systemd 15.09      YES

xfce    systemd 15.09      YES
xfce    openrc  15.12      YES

Lenovo Thinkpad X200s

Fluxbox openrc  15.12      NO


The x200s hardware (using my LXQt installation):

$ inxi -F
System:    Host: x200mj Kernel: 4.1.15-1-MANJARO x86_64 (64 bit) Desktop: LXQt
           Distro: ManjaroLinux 15.12-rc2 Capella
Machine:   System: LENOVO product: 7470BQ7 v: ThinkPad X200s
           Mobo: LENOVO model: 7470BQ7 Bios: LENOVO v: 6DET44WW (2.08 ) date: 04/22/2009
CPU:       Dual core Intel Core2 Duo L9300 (-MCP-) cache: 6144 KB
           clock speeds: max: 1601 MHz 1: 1600 MHz 2: 1601 MHz
Graphics:  Card: Intel Mobile 4 Series Integrated Graphics Controller
           Display Server: X.Org 1.17.4 driver: intel Resolution: 1280x800@60.00hz
           GLX Renderer: Mesa DRI Mobile Intel GM45 Express GLX Version: 2.1 Mesa 11.0.7
Audio:     Card Intel 82801I (ICH9 Family) HD Audio Controller driver: snd_hda_intel
           Sound: Advanced Linux Sound Architecture v: k4.1.15-1-MANJARO
Network:   Card-1: Intel 82567LM Gigabit Network Connection driver: e1000e
           IF: eth0 state: down mac: 00:1f:16:16:a0:0b
           Card-2: Intel PRO/Wireless 5100 AGN [Shiloh] Network Connection driver: iwlwifi
           IF: wlan0 state: up mac: 00:22:fa:ba:e1:8c
Drives:    HDD Total Size: 160.0GB (20.1% used) ID-1: /dev/sda model: WDC_WD1600BEVS size: 160.0GB
Partition: ID-1: / size: 20G used: 7.0G (39%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/sda2
           ID-2: /boot size: 2.0G used: 41M (3%) fs: ext2 dev: /dev/sda1
           ID-3: /home size: 107G used: 23G (23%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/sda4
Sensors:   System Temperatures: cpu: 46.0C mobo: 42.0C
           Fan Speeds (in rpm): cpu: 2377
Info:      Processes: 121 Uptime: 1 min Memory: 332.0/2957.8MB Client: Shell (bash) inxi: 2.2.31


Is systemd going to consume us all?

Cheers, Bill
Title: Re: Applications failing to start
Post by: withjaro on 08. January 2016, 09:53:16
i think its a case of avoiding Lenovo's like the plague ... ive had similar craziness with HP Pavillion's ... i dont believe these issues are insurmountable,but it will take more than a novice to intermediate user to find the solutions in a given circumstance,Bill  :-\
Title: Re: Applications failing to start
Post by: oberon on 08. January 2016, 10:50:30
If it's not too bothersome for you to download another ISO... ::) would you mind checking if there's any difference with this latest build?
http://sourceforge.net/projects/manjaro-testing/files/community/fluxbox/15.12/x86_64/manjaro-fluxbox-openrc-15.12-x86_64.iso/download
Thank you for your investigation... :P
Title: Re: Applications failing to start
Post by: eugen-b on 08. January 2016, 11:02:49
@undeuchaeta, thank you for extensive testing! Other users with the same hardware will now be able to find your results and will know what edition will probably work on their machine. It is really s.th. which brings Linux forward right aftrer the great effort the devs make to make all this possible.
I would say that it is great that at least one OpenRC edition works for you. And it is likely that the Net OpenRC edition will work also.
So systemd did not consume your Notebook! ;)
Title: Re: Applications failing to start
Post by: oberon on 08. January 2016, 12:17:59
On the other end it would still be great of course to find out what the differences are between the working xfce-openrc edition and the other ones... ;)
If you are still willing to try the latest fluxbox-build, linked in me other post, that would be great.
Also, we have a brandnew networkmanager-consolekit package in the unstable repo now.
It would be interesting if installing that makes a difference, too...: :)
Code: [Select]
sudo pacman -U http://repo.manjaro.org.uk/pool/overlay/networkmanager-consolekit-1.0.10-1-x86_64.pkg.tar.xz
Title: Re: Applications failing to start
Post by: oberon on 09. January 2016, 13:03:29
Meanwhile we have an even never version:
Code: [Select]
sudo pacman -U http://repo.manjaro.org.uk/pool/overlay/networkmanager-consolekit-1.0.10-2-x86_64.pkg.tar.xz
Title: Re: Applications failing to start
Post by: undeuchaeta on 09. January 2016, 23:35:37
No bother at all oberon, happy to be of assistance! I hope that we can resolve this.

I downloaded the testing iso but unfortunately the behaviour is the same as I have described above. To summarize:

After installing and a restart, I can open all applications from the dock and from the menu. If I use NetworkManager to connect to the wifi, I can continue to open applications until I restart the machine. After that neither the menu or the dock will start applications with three exceptions:

(Menu) Customization -> Dock  will open this dialog box.
(Menu) Tools -> Settings -> Firewall Configuration and Tools -> Settings -> Manjaro Settings Manager open authentication dialogs but then nothing.

All my installs have been native installs, I have not been using virtual machines.

@withjaro, thanks for your response. At the risk of forking my own thread, which notebook do you use? I am looking to buy a new machine - I have never had problems with Thinkpads until now.

Cheers,
Bill
Title: Re: Applications failing to start
Post by: undeuchaeta on 09. January 2016, 23:57:56
Sorry folks I wrote my last post without reading the last three posts from eugen-b and oberon!

So I have just
1. Re-installed the testing version and re-booted.
2. Connected to the wifi and installed the latest networkmanager-consolekit package.
3. Restarted the machine.

Unfortunately the behaviour is the same.

Thanks for your comments @eugen-b, what I have done is nothing compared to the work of the devs, but I agree that the community is what maked Linux! I does worry me that systemd is so pervasive, though.

Cheers,
Bill
Title: Re: Applications failing to start
Post by: boruch on 11. January 2016, 18:23:57
Hi. I'm a visitor from your sister i3/openrc community edition. Oberon pointed me here after I posted that I had similar problems, and traced it back to a setting in NetworkManager.

In my case, the trouble correlates to setting NM to auto-connect to a wireless network (I didin't test wired). It interfered with the start up of other services / programs. When I toggled auto-connect off, the symptoms all cleared up, and problems solved.

Do you all have an access point set to auto-connect?
Title: Re: Applications failing to start
Post by: oberon on 12. January 2016, 17:14:46
https://forum.manjaro.org/index.php?topic=29844.msg249244#msg249244
Title: Re: Applications failing to start
Post by: oberon on 12. January 2016, 17:17:34
@undeuchaeta Do you only have the issue after rebooting? Re-logging is not enough? In that case my experiment would not prove anything of course. What about a LAN connection? Is that also triggering the problem? That should be reproduceable in virtualbox ...
I will try another hard install on another machine here ....
Title: Re: Applications failing to start
Post by: undeuchaeta on 13. January 2016, 05:37:03
Sorry folks, I got distracted by work...

@boruch: Brilliant idea, and it works, mostly, ... Here is what I did:

1. Re-install (manjaro fluxbox openrc 15.12 64bit)

2. Re-boot and use NetworkManager to connect to the WiFi ... and here is the trick: As soon as NM connects to the WiFi, I cannot open any applications including starting the "Edit Connections" dialog in nm-applet! So, I type in my WiFi passwd and then get the "Edit Connections" dialog open BEFORE the machine connects to the WiFi! That way I can toggle off the auto-connect.
The first time I did this I could then open applications (without restart), the second time I could not.

3. But either way, after a restart I can open applications both before and after connecting to the WiFi.

So your suggestion works. Curious stuff! But I think this is more of a workaround than a solution.


@oberon, to answer your questions:

"Do you only have the issue after rebooting?" - No, as soon as I am connected to the WiFi I cannot start applications. I have to shutdown from another tty as I cannot start oblogout.

"Re-logging is not enough?" - After a re-install, and again a matter of logging out before NM connects! On logging back in I could not start any applications.

"What about a LAN connection?" - The same symptoms.

"That should be reproduceable in virtualbox ... " - Using Oracle VirtualBox on a Xubuntu installation on the same Lenovo Thinkpad T400 that I have been using: All works fine, it connects to the VB network and everything works before and after reboots.


So it seems that as soon as I use NetworkManager to connect to WiFi or Ethernet in a native install I cannot start applications from the dock or menu before or after reboots. This is the same for Thinkpads T400 and X200s.


Next thing to try is wicd - I could re-install, connect to network then use a tty to install wicd and purge NetworkManager. Any hints on doing this?

Cheers,
Bill
Title: Re: Applications failing to start
Post by: undeuchaeta on 18. January 2016, 03:26:28
I have not really solved this issue but my work-around is to use wicd instead of NetworkManager:

1. Install Manjaro Fluxbox OpenRC

2. Re-boot and start your xterm in case it will not start after connecting to the Internet (this is inconsistent)

3. Use NetworkManager to connect to the Internet

4. Update your system then replace NetworkManager with wicd:

As root user:

# update (note that you will probably get "unable to lock database" errors as Manjaro checks for updates after login...patience, this takes a minute ot two.)
Code: [Select]
pacman -Syu
# install wicd
Code: [Select]
pacman -Sy wicd wicd-gtk wicd-openrc
# stop the NetworkManager process
Code: [Select]
/etc/init.d/NetworkManager stop
/etc/init.d/dhcpcd stop

# remove NetworkManager from default run level
Code: [Select]
rc-update delete NetworkManager default
rc-update delete dhcpcd default

# start the wicd process
Code: [Select]
/etc/init.d/wicd start
# add wicd to the default run level
Code: [Select]
rc-update add wicd default
# add yourself to the users group so that you can use the wicd GUI
Code: [Select]
gpasswd -a YOUR_USER_NAME users
As normal user

# edit Fluxbox system tray
Code: [Select]
mousepad ~/.fluxbox/startup
# replace
nm-applet &
with
wicd-client -t &
     (note the -t flag means "run the wicd tray icon only" - otherwise the wicd dialog opens when you login.)

5. Re-boot your machine

6. Click on the network icon in your system tray to use wicd to connect to Internet

7. Re-boot to test!

I am now running the beautiful Manjaro Fluxbox OpenRC edition with no problems!

Cheers, Bill
Title: Re: Applications failing to start
Post by: simgin on 18. January 2016, 04:01:44
^ Have you or are you doing QA, Bill? It is just the way you are describing the issue, i like it :)


cheerio
simon
Title: Re: Applications failing to start
Post by: eugen-b on 18. January 2016, 10:56:51
That's a great post about how to set up wicd! It definitely belongs into the Wiki, because it is basic knowledge which is nevertheless hard to find. (Arch describes this only for systemd.)
Title: Re: Applications failing to start
Post by: oberon on 18. January 2016, 11:13:53
Brilliant! Thank you so much :)
Title: Re: Applications failing to start
Post by: undeuchaeta on 19. January 2016, 20:57:10
@eugen-b and @oberon, thanks, I will create a Wiki page if I can get access. Which section of the Wiki do you suggest it should it be in?

@simgin, Thanks for the comment, I am not involved in QA at the moment! I am currently an academic working as a data analyst in ecology, but in a previous career I worked in IT as a programmer and UNIX admin where I did write some documentation.

Cheers, Bill