Manjaro Linux Forum

Support for Community Editions => LXQt => Topic started by: grndzro on 12. December 2014, 02:13:08

Title: Make LXQT with Kwin a standard DE with 100% QT apps
Post by: grndzro on 12. December 2014, 02:13:08
I think it would be awesome if we had an official Manjaro supported LXQT + Kwin.
Title: Re: Make LXQT with Kwin a standard DE with 100% QT apps
Post by: Esclapion on 12. December 2014, 10:19:13
For the moment, kwin is not really stand-alone. To really work, it needs kdebase, etc..., so it will be a poor Kde.
Title: Re: Make LXQT with Kwin a standard DE with 100% QT apps
Post by: AJSlye on 12. December 2014, 10:32:05
kwin 5.1.1-1 dependencies: qt5-multimedia plasma-framework knewstuff libxcursor kinit hicolor-icon-theme libepoxy kwayland
Title: Re: Make LXQT with Kwin a standard DE with 100% QT apps
Post by: Esclapion on 12. December 2014, 10:43:07
Better than I thought...  ::)
Title: Re: Make LXQT with Kwin a standard DE with 100% QT apps
Post by: Esclapion on 12. December 2014, 10:54:35
Topic moved in LXDE subforum.  ;)
Title: Re: Make LXQT with Kwin a standard DE with 100% QT apps
Post by: qanjaro on 12. December 2014, 11:05:07
kwin 5.1.1-1 dependencies: qt5-multimedia plasma-framework knewstuff libxcursor kinit hicolor-icon-theme libepoxy kwayland

And dependencies of plasma-framework, knewstuff, kinit?
Title: Re: Make LXQT with Kwin a standard DE with 100% QT apps
Post by: Esclapion on 12. December 2014, 11:12:06
Code: [Select]
pacman -Si plasma-framework
Dépend de             : qt5-quickcontrols  kactivities-frameworks

Code: [Select]
pacman -Si qt5-quickcontrols
Dépend de             : qt5-declarative

Code: [Select]
pacman -Si kactivities-frameworks
Dépend de             : kcmutils  kdeclarative

Code: [Select]
pacman -Si kcmutils
Dépend de             : kxmlgui

Code: [Select]
pacman -Si kdeclarative
Dépend de             : kio
Title: Re: Make LXQT with Kwin a standard DE with 100% QT apps
Post by: qanjaro on 12. December 2014, 11:18:42
Thank you Esclapion. Now there are other k-things –like kancer!
Title: Re: Make LXQT with Kwin a standard DE with 100% QT apps
Post by: AJSlye on 12. December 2014, 11:33:12
Still not anywhere as bad as kdebase-workspace.

Now, who would like to document that dependency tree?

I'll start it:
kdebase-workspace dependencies: kdelibs>=4.11.14 kdepim-runtime lm_sensors libraw1394 qimageblitz polkit-kde xorg-xprop libxdamage libqalculate libxklavier xorg-xsetroot libxcomposite libxinerama xorg-xrdb libxres xorg-xrandr xorg-xmessage libusb-compat kde-base-artwork xcb-util-renderutil xcb-util-image ttf-font xcb-util-keysyms xcb-util-wm pciutils glu
Title: Re: Make LXQT with Kwin a standard DE with 100% QT apps
Post by: Esclapion on 12. December 2014, 11:37:54
For me, kdebase-workspace is excluded...

(edit)

On a xfce :

Code: [Select]
Paquets (81): akonadi-1.13.0-3  attica-qt4-0.4.2-1  attica-qt5-5.4.0-1
              cln-1.3.3-2  docbook-xml-4.5-6  docbook-xsl-1.78.1-1
              gamin-0.1.10-8  jemalloc-3.6.0-1  kactivities-frameworks-5.4.0-2
              karchive-5.4.0-1  kauth-5.4.0-1  kbookmarks-5.4.0-1
              kcmutils-5.4.0-1  kcodecs-5.4.0-1  kcompletion-5.4.0-1
              kconfig-5.4.0-1  kconfigwidgets-5.4.0-1  kcoreaddons-5.4.0-1
              kcrash-5.4.0-1  kdbusaddons-5.4.0-1  kde-base-artwork-4.14.3-1
              kdebase-runtime-4.14.3-1  kdeclarative-5.4.0-1  kdelibs-4.14.3-2
              kdepim-runtime-4.14.3-1  kdepimlibs-4.14.3-1
              kglobalaccel-5.4.0-1  kguiaddons-5.4.0-1  ki18n-5.4.0-1
              kiconthemes-5.4.0-1  kio-5.4.0-1  kitemviews-5.4.0-1
              kjobwidgets-5.4.0-1  knotifications-5.4.0-1  kservice-5.4.0-1
              ktextwidgets-5.4.0-1  kwallet-5.4.0-1  kwidgetsaddons-5.4.0-1
              kwindowsystem-5.4.0-1  kxmlgui-5.4.0-1  libaccounts-glib-1.18-1
              libaccounts-qt4-1.13-1  libdbusmenu-qt-0.9.2-3
              libdbusmenu-qt5-0.9.3+14.10.20140619-1  libdmtx-0.7.4-5
              libkactivities4-4.13.3-1  libkfbapi-1.0-2  libkgapi-2.2.0-1
              libkolab-0.5.3-1  libkolabxml-1.0.2-2  libmariadbclient-10.0.15-1
              libqalculate-0.9.7-4  libqzeitgeist-0.8.0-4  libssh-0.6.3-1
              libutempter-1.1.6-2  libxaw-1.0.12-1  mariadb-10.0.15-1
              mariadb-clients-10.0.15-1  media-player-info-19-1
              oxygen-icons-4.14.3-1  phonon-qt4-4.8.3-1
              phonon-qt4-gstreamer-4.8.1-1  phonon-qt5-4.8.3-1
              phonon-qt5-gstreamer-4.8.1-1  polkit-kde-0.99.0-5
              polkit-qt4-0.112-2  polkit-qt5-0.112-2  prison-1.1.1-1
              qca-2.0.3-5  qimageblitz-0.0.6-4  qjson-0.8.1-3
              qt5-script-5.3.2-2  qt5-x11extras-5.3.2-2  signon-qt4-8.57-1
              solid-5.4.0-1  sonnet-5.4.0-1  strigi-0.7.8-5
              xcb-util-renderutil-0.3.9-1  xerces-c-3.1.1-5
              xorg-xmessage-1.0.4-2  kdebase-workspace-4.11.14-1

Taille totale de téléchargement : 120,15 MiB
Taille totale installé :           481,56 MiB
Title: Re: Make LXQT with Kwin a standard DE with 100% QT apps
Post by: Esclapion on 12. December 2014, 11:48:15
On the current Lxqt, pacman -S kwin ->

Code: [Select]
Paquets (45): attica-qt5-5.4.0-1  gamin-0.1.10-8  gstreamer0.10-0.10.36-4  gstreamer0.10-base-0.10.36-3
              kactivities-frameworks-5.4.0-2  karchive-5.4.0-1  kauth-5.4.0-1  kbookmarks-5.4.0-1
              kcmutils-5.4.0-1  kcodecs-5.4.0-1  kcompletion-5.4.0-1  kconfig-5.4.0-1
              kconfigwidgets-5.4.0-1  kcoreaddons-5.4.0-1  kcrash-5.4.0-1  kdbusaddons-5.4.0-1
              kdeclarative-5.4.0-1  kglobalaccel-5.4.0-1  kguiaddons-5.4.0-1  ki18n-5.4.0-1
              kiconthemes-5.4.0-1  kinit-5.4.0-1  kio-5.4.0-1  kitemviews-5.4.0-1  kjobwidgets-5.4.0-1
              knewstuff-5.4.0-1  knotifications-5.4.0-1  kservice-5.4.0-1  ktextwidgets-5.4.0-1
              kwallet-5.4.0-1  kwayland-5.1.1-1  kwidgetsaddons-5.4.0-1  kwindowsystem-5.4.0-1
              kxmlgui-5.4.0-1  libdbusmenu-qt5-0.9.3+14.10.20140619-1  media-player-info-19-1
              openal-1.16.0-1  phonon-qt5-4.8.3-1  phonon-qt5-gstreamer-4.8.1-1
              plasma-framework-5.4.0-1  qt5-multimedia-5.3.2-2  qt5-quickcontrols-5.3.2-2  solid-5.4.0-1
              sonnet-5.4.0-1  kwin-5.1.1-1

Taille totale de téléchargement : 24,25 MiB
Taille totale installé :           115,19 MiB

(edit)
Anyway, a lot of K-things..
Title: Re: Make LXQT with Kwin a standard DE with 100% QT apps
Post by: qanjaro on 12. December 2014, 12:38:20
Yes, but anything is better than gtk(3)!
Title: Re: Make LXQT with Kwin a standard DE with 100% QT apps
Post by: Rob on 12. December 2014, 12:42:51
A Qt equivalent of Xfce+Compiz, which is pretty close to what this would be, is of interest to me. I've no doubt there'll be an ISO along these lines eventually.
Title: Re: Make LXQT with Kwin a standard DE with 100% QT apps
Post by: AJSlye on 12. December 2014, 12:44:50
Yes, but those are mostly backgroung serveces and libs, besides Kwin (24,25 MiB) to kdebase-workspace (120,15 MiB), big difference. :)
Title: Re: Make LXQT with Kwin a standard DE with 100% QT apps
Post by: Strit on 12. December 2014, 12:47:31
How is Qt apps performing compared to gtk apps?

By this I mean, CPU usage, Memory usage and optimization.

Anyone know? Would Qt apps be faster and better responding than gtk apps?
Title: Re: Make LXQT with Kwin a standard DE with 100% QT apps
Post by: Esclapion on 12. December 2014, 12:53:07
For the moment, not better. Especially with Qt5, not absolutely ready and with some probs. But the devs of lxqt work a lot of this, "PCMan" specifically.  ;)
Title: Re: Make LXQT with Kwin a standard DE with 100% QT apps
Post by: qanjaro on 12. December 2014, 12:58:00
And neither worse, recalling pcman's initial comparison (with the current, gtk3) during his gtk>qt transition.
Title: Re: Make LXQT with Kwin a standard DE with 100% QT apps
Post by: Esclapion on 12. December 2014, 13:14:05
Worse, not. But we are a bit slower at start than xfce with fewer services.
Title: Re: Make LXQT with Kwin a standard DE with 100% QT apps
Post by: grndzro on 12. December 2014, 13:23:06
I wonder if a light version of Kwin is possible? Mabye a stripped down version providing the equivalent of GDM?

I cant imagine the actual WM part of Kwin really requires all that crap.
Title: Re: Make LXQT with Kwin a standard DE with 100% QT apps
Post by: Esclapion on 12. December 2014, 13:25:02
I wonder if a light version of Kwin is possible? Mabye a stripped down version providing the equivalent of GDM?

I cant imagine the actual WM part of Kwin really requires all that crap.

If the devs of lxqt have time, maybe. But, for the moment, they complete the porting.
Title: Re: Make LXQT with Kwin a standard DE with 100% QT apps
Post by: grndzro on 12. December 2014, 13:29:58
If the devs of lxqt have time, maybe. But, for the moment, they complete the porting.

What about the work done for Netrunner? Did they manage to lighten Kwin?
One of their bullet points was an optimized Kwin.
Title: Re: Make LXQT with Kwin a standard DE with 100% QT apps
Post by: Esclapion on 12. December 2014, 14:03:08
1st try of kwin :

(http://pix.toile-libre.org/upload/original/1418389314.png)

(edit)

kwin-x11 works better, but merely things are not working.
Title: Re: Make LXQT with Kwin a standard DE with 100% QT apps
Post by: AJSlye on 12. December 2014, 14:09:11
What about the work done for Netrunner? Did they manage to lighten Kwin?
One of their bullet points was an optimized Kwin.

That was an old comparison between Netrunner and all the release based KDE distributions out at that time.
Blue Systems contributes upstream to the KDE and QT projects as well as to all the other various projects that they support. http://www.blue-systems.com/

Netrunner Rolling is a Manjaro KDE respin that adds in some extras like firefox-kde (now contributed upstream to Manjaro), webaccounts, sambamounter, expanding-icons-taskmanager, etc. and once finished the Muon suite as well. Here is the blueshell repository for anyone that wishes to browse through it: http://arch.netrunner-os.com/
Title: Re: Make LXQT with Kwin a standard DE with 100% QT apps
Post by: excalibur1234 on 12. December 2014, 15:09:03
i have written wiki pages about a minimal lxqt installation on top of manjaro net edition:
https://wiki.manjaro.org/index.php?title=Minimal_LXQt_installation

you can also replace openbox with kwin, just follow this wiki tutorial:
https://wiki.manjaro.org/index.php?title=LXQt_with_kwin


the ultimate goal for me is to create a manjaro lxqt with 100% qt apps, but:
- i prefer qt5 apps over qt4 apps. most of the time, qt4 apps are not (well) maintained anymore
- the qt apps should be a proper a proper alternative (this means, there needs to be a well maintained, stable, and working qt5 app) to existing gtk apps
- lxqt needs to become a complete DE (there are still many parts missing and/or incomplete)

please look here how to make your system qt only:
https://wiki.manjaro.org/index.php?title=HOW_TO_MAKE_LXQt_PURER_%28LIKE_KDE%29_AND_LEANER_WITHOUT_GTK
you can clearly see that it is possible to compile some apps (e.g. flash) without gtk, but it is rather complicated to get a qt-only gksu replacement.
also, pcmanfm-qt is dependent on gtk2 by default.
i have not found a qt-based alternative to gnome-keyring.
this shows the user-unfriendliness of a pure qt-based manjaro lxqt. as long as this is the case, i will not offer a manjaro lxqt without gtk2.

when lxqt development continues, i hope lxqt 1.0 will offer a complete and almost user-friendly DE.
canonical has announced that ubuntu 16.04 will be based on unity8 (which is qt based), this means that a lot of qt-based apps will appear, too.
in my opinion, the future of lxqt and qt on linux look very bright, but we are not there yet.
Title: Re: Make LXQT with Kwin a standard DE with 100% QT apps
Post by: skeevy420 on 12. December 2014, 15:41:53
On the KDE dependencies....I don't think they're that big of a deal since quite a few of the good QT apps will have those same dependencies.

For me, Kwin_X11 works decently enough, haven't had any success with Kwin_wayland.....or _wayland anything for that matter.  Would love to get E19 Wayland working....Manjaroiso using E19 Wayland only resulted in booting to a black screen :(

Perhaps Anex could start adding LXQT+KWin to the Plasma 5 iso and call it the 9.0 QT Desktop Testing Iso?  Both will have very similar dependencies, core apps (firefox-kde and such), and similar app fixes.  Just a suggestion to help with testing.  Personally, I won't be interested in LXQT until it matures a bit more (been following it since Razor-QT and have high hopes for it).
Title: Re: Make LXQT with Kwin a standard DE with 100% QT apps
Post by: qanjaro on 12. December 2014, 15:52:09
You need qtwayland to use any qt app in wayland/weston and the newly released qt5 5.4 has it though has not landed here on unstable yet.
Title: Re: Make LXQT with Kwin a standard DE with 100% QT apps
Post by: skeevy420 on 12. December 2014, 16:31:01
Hmmm.....thought I had that....off to the AUR
Title: Re: Make LXQT with Kwin a standard DE with 100% QT apps
Post by: Rob on 12. December 2014, 16:41:22
So earlier tonight i compiled Compiz 0.9 without dependency on any toolkit or WM-backend (and thus without any of the standard decorators), and also without support for or dependency on GConf or dconf/gsettings.
Then i booted up this ISO (https://forum.manjaro.org/index.php?topic=18665.0) in a VM and started playing.

The obvious answer to get decorated windows was Emerald (emerald0.9), though this does depend on GTK2, but removing GTK2 basically isn't an option anyway, not currently.
Also, CCSM requires pygtk, and hence GTK2

I swapped the LightDM-GTK3-greeter for the GTK2-Greeter and removed GTK3.

Here is LXQt+Compiz0.9+Emerald, with only GTK2 installed, GTK3 is removed (i didn't test stuff that much, i don't know what the full ramifications will be from no GTK3), and with no gconf/dconf/metacity deps:
http://www.paradoxcomputers.com.au/manjaro/images/lxqt/lxqt-compiz09-emerald-2.jpg
http://www.paradoxcomputers.com.au/manjaro/images/lxqt/lxqt-compiz09-emerald.jpg

If there's demand for a Compiz package like this to be available, it can happen.
Title: Re: Make LXQT with Kwin a standard DE with 100% QT apps
Post by: qanjaro on 12. December 2014, 17:27:36
Hmmm.....thought I had that....off to the AUR

AUR has qt5-wayland which can be problematic to install though I'd managed some time ago. And at that time have tried weston on another tty by issuing "weston-launch". It worked; weston had a panel with app icons, but no way to minimize app windows, a behaviour unlikely to be changed according to a weston (or wayland) dev in phoronix, because weston is just a reference thing and minimization may not be desired in all the platforms or may be required to behave differently depending on the platform.

Then you need a compositor or weston pluging. The (qt5) ones I've found: velox and loliwm (tiling WMs) and orbital (something like fluxbox or richer). I'd managed to install and see orbital too, but then not every qt5 app worked in spite of qt5-wayland. Maybe with the new qt5 5.4 this will be possible since qtwayland is included with the release (so no need for the AUR package).

AUR package for orbital is outdated by the way.

Sorry for hijacking the thread.

.........

Qt5 5.4 has landed. As before only qtcreator, otter-browser and smplayer works under weston, but not pcmanfm-qt, qtfm or some other qt5 apps.
Title: Re: Make LXQT with Kwin a standard DE with 100% QT apps
Post by: grndzro on 13. December 2014, 01:45:21
Thanks for the great discussions. I learned quite a bit following them up.
I'll bump it when LXQT 0.9.0 comes out to see what has changed since then.

Mabye an annual brainstorming thread whenever LXQT goes through major revisions just to see where it's all at. Mabye I'll put in bumpers from this thread so people can see what has potentially changed.
Title: Re: Make LXQT with Kwin a standard DE with 100% QT apps
Post by: excalibur1234 on 13. December 2014, 12:14:08
I'll bump it when LXQT 0.9.0 comes out to see what has changed since then.

Mabye I'll put in bumpers from this thread so people can see what has potentially changed.
please do that!
Title: Re: Make LXQT with Kwin a standard DE with 100% QT apps
Post by: drnzorg on 21. October 2015, 12:39:18
It's been eight months since LxQt 0.9.0 released, Kwin requires less dependencies than it used to and many more Qt5 applications/ports appeared. I guess I'll bump this thread instead of starting a new one since it's been requested. It'd be nice to see this idea implemented even as a alternative to current "dark" featuring more extensive Qt5 applications like quassel, notepadqq etc.
Title: Re: Make LXQT with Kwin a standard DE with 100% QT apps
Post by: Esclapion on 21. October 2015, 13:02:27
Kwin is now in two branchs : kwin-x11 et the future kwin-wayland. For the moment, kwin-x11 is not stable enough to be retained by the lxqt team. They wait for the wayland version.

For the others applications, each time I find a Qt5 one who can be included in the ISO, I do it. But I also ensures lightness and ease of use of the whole.